Brewer12.8 Centerboard

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6 years 7 months ago #1616 by George Myers
Brewer12.8 Centerboard was created by George Myers
I recently bought hull 6 ( I believe) of the 9 boats made. The previous owner got mad at the centerboard and dropped it in the bay at Luperon DR. Now just the cavity and pin remains. He said it thumped all the time and had a restraining fixed wire that vibrated bad at speeds over 5.5kn. The wire was to prevent the board from going forward and hitting the keel opening. It weighed 300 lbs. So I ask this forum what others have done and for suggestions. George
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6 years 7 months ago #1618 by Peter Garsoe
Replied by Peter Garsoe on topic Brewer12.8 Centerboard
the centerboard or swing keel, is a pain and useless...
it bangs in a sea way and i get concerned that it would do damage to the hull...and next to impossible to retract..
i have thought about shaping the board so it would fit into "wedge" in the deployed position...
looking at it underwater it waves like seaweed with the current... i don't think it can be deployed
successfully....
if anyone is interested in contracting ted and have him design a "fix"... deeper and maybe a bulb?...
i have a rough estimate from a yard of $10,000 for something like that...

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6 years 7 months ago #1619 by George Myers
Replied by George Myers on topic Brewer12.8 Centerboard
No kidding dick tracy. Why would one go back to the designer who failed miserably in original centerboard design.. The previous owner of my 12.8 got so frustrated he just unhooked it ant let it drop in Luperon DR

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6 years 7 months ago #1620 by C. William Eilers, Jr
Replied by C. William Eilers, Jr on topic Brewer12.8 Centerboard
I totally disagree. We have owned Blue Prince Brewer 12.8 number 11 for 13 years and have always used the centerboard successfully up wind. We did have one problem when the pennant became disconnected and the board dropped straight down and we had to be hauled in Buzzards bay. That was a hassle and I was lucky to find a yard that could haul me with the board down and they had me out by nine AM and back in the water by 3. I did replace the pennant again after another 8 years before we headed for the Bahamas just to be on the safe side. I find that although the board is hard to raise it will come up with just a little effort if raised while motoring. The speed of the boat does seem to give a big boost to reduce the effort needed. Blue prince is one of the few 12.8 ketches but that should not make much difference. When sailing with the board down the weather helm is significantly reduced.

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6 years 7 months ago #1621 by George Myers
Replied by George Myers on topic Brewer12.8 Centerboard
I guess you got one where the crtboard didn't thunk thunk all the time and the restraining wire didn't vibrate at speed?

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6 years 7 months ago #1624 by George Myers
Replied by George Myers on topic Brewer12.8 Centerboard
Does anyone have a spare board?? Here is sketch of ridiculous hoisting arrangement. As you can see it has a tube within keel that has a 90 degree turn in a 6-8 inch radius ......No wonder its a 1000 lb pull to move a 300 lb board.
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6 years 7 months ago #1627 by Jack Dexter
Replied by Jack Dexter on topic Brewer12.8 Centerboard
I thought I had replied to this several days ago but I don't see evidence of that so I'll try again.

I have one of the 40 12.8's built (hull #252). My board was noisy but I had pads mounted on either side of it and that quieted things a lot. I've had no humming from the pennant.

The board really does help going to weather and in the deep home waters of Maine and Canada where there is a lot of windward work I wouldn't want to be without it. However, Tribute has been in the shallow waters of the Bahamas and the ICW for the last 2 years and I didn't want to risk an accidental deployment. I took advantage of the system Ted designed to prevent that and had it fixed in the up position. It will be a simple matter to make it functional again when we bring Tribute home.

The 12.8's were designed so they could be raced and I assume that accounts for the centerboard and the placement of the shrouds. The first few boats were all ordered by a group of guys from a yacht club in New York who specifically requested Ted to make the modifications which resulted in the keel/centerboard design.

While the 12.8's can definitely sail without the board, I'm glad I have mine.

Jack Dexter
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6 years 7 months ago #1628 by George Myers
Replied by George Myers on topic Brewer12.8 Centerboard
Dear Jack, Thanks for the info. I definitely will replace mine. Im looking for the dimensions and improvements. How much clearance was there on the board slot? How much up into the slot was the board when it was down? Thanks , George

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6 years 7 months ago #1633 by Jack Dexter
Replied by Jack Dexter on topic Brewer12.8 Centerboard
George, the best source for dimensions and details would be Ted Brewer. He's always been easy to reach and very helpful. He sells full sets of plans or plans of specific parts.

My boat is in the water and I don't remember the width of the slot. When I bought my boat there was considerable slop between the board and the trunk but after I added the pads it was probably less than a half inch on both sides. If I was doing it again I'd have the pads made wedge shape so there would be no wiggle room when the board was snugged up.

The board when correctly deployed hangs at a 45 degree angle. I tied a knot in the centerboard pennant where it goes through the line stopper to prevent it from going down any further.

You probably found the PVC pipe that runs from the top of the centerboard trunk to the cockpit sole. That's for the backup system to keep the board from accidentally deploying. Since Tribute is going to be in shallow water for the foreseeable future our board is fixed in the up position. When we eventually get back to good deep Maine water we'll disconnect the preventer and rely on the pennant alone.

Good luck.

Jack

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6 years 7 months ago #1634 by George Myers
Replied by George Myers on topic Brewer12.8 Centerboard
Yes Ted is printing 2 drawings for me of the centerboard.Will mail them Monday. He says Ft Myers Boat Works did not follow his plan for the hoisting Centerboard arrangments. Im a little confused about the line you call a back up system . I heard this line was to keep the board from going forward. You say its not needed and the pennant is enough to control board. Evidently this is the line that HUUUUMS and . vibrates. Im thinking of moving this line to be fixed inside the aft end of the cavity. Minimize it in the flowing water outside hull lines. Half inch each side ! Wow that's a lot. Im thinking new board to be 1/8 each side or 1/4 in total max. Why not?? This centerboard should go down and up in a smooth fashion and it should not wobble any when its part way down! Maine-- that sounds good for the year after when everything is fixed and working well. Thanks, George

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6 years 7 months ago #1636 by Matt Davis
Replied by Matt Davis on topic Brewer12.8 Centerboard
If it's not too much trouble, would you mind posting Ted's drawings of the board? Thanks!

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6 years 7 months ago #1638 by Scott Lee
Replied by Scott Lee on topic Brewer12.8 Centerboard
Yes, it would be too much trouble.... with a capital "T"! We cannot share copyrighted material on the website.

Scott
Joie de Vivre
Website Admin
The following user(s) said Thank You: Deborah Streeter

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6 years 7 months ago #1643 by Greg Temple
Replied by Greg Temple on topic Brewer12.8 Centerboard
Plans and drawings are available from Ted Brewer:

www.tedbrewer.com/

Greg Temple

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6 years 6 months ago #1657 by Charles Moore
Replied by Charles Moore on topic Brewer12.8 Centerboard
I do not totally understand this thread: From the schematic it looks like the retractable keel can be pulled up from the cockpit Stop cable as well as the C/B Pendant position and it would seem that they would complement each other and be mutually beneficial? Could you enlighten me please.

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6 years 6 months ago #1658 by George Myers
Replied by George Myers on topic Brewer12.8 Centerboard
According to previous owner (PO) , the stop cable vibrated when boat had board down and speed was over 5kn, He also said that board went thump thump klunk klunk klunk whe board was up in a seaway. After 8-10 years of this he just dropped it while anchored in Luperon ,Dominion Republic. I just returned from attempted delivery to my home and left boat in Marathon Boatyard where it will be hauled for a month after fuel polishing as dirty fuel tan basically stopped progress. One thing is sure, the boat as is is a crappy performer as it has no 'grip' on the water without the centerboard. I have received the drawings from Ted Brewer and will be thinking of replacing the centerboard with one that works well. Ted Brewer says that Ft Myers Builders did not follow his drawings but possibly did follow them in the shape or the actual board. The PO also said that just by lowering the centerboard the boats speed decreased by .5 knots. Now Sir you are updated. Regards, George Myers
The following user(s) said Thank You: Charles Moore

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6 years 6 months ago #1661 by Jack Dexter
Replied by Jack Dexter on topic Brewer12.8 Centerboard
There appear to be a lot of varying opinions out there. My experience using the board and sailing with it raised are quite different then some if those expressed. I've sailed and raced for over 45 years in various keel and centerboard boats and that's the perspective that I have on this issue.

The 12.8! underbody was designed to please 7 racers from a yacht club in New York who wanted a keel centerboard boat they could race as a one design class according to what I've read. They were very experienced yachtsmen and apparently we're very pleased with their boats. In addition to racing, they also wanted a comfortable cruiser. Ted gave them exactly what they wanted.

Of course the boat goes better up wind with the board down. That's why the board was installed in the first place. The boat, like the Hinckley Burmuda 40, was designed, I believe, to the old CCA rule. One great advantage of the board is that you have deep draft when you need it to go to weather and shallow draft when you need it like in the ICW and the Bahamas. We find that an amazingly attractive feature.

With respect to performance with the board up, it probably is like a lot of purpose built cruisers with shallow draft and no board. Think, for example, of the Island Packets. As I understand it, Ft. Meyers Yacht and Shipbuilding found enough cruisers who bought the early boats were so happy with the way the boat sailed with the board up that they never used the board. For that reason, I believe some of the 12.8's we're built without the boards. The board became an option as I understand it.

When we sailed in Maine we used just the pennant that ran from the board up through the stainless tubing to the deck to raise and lower the board and it never gave us any trouble. The winch on deck and this 70 year old skipper were capable of raising it just fine. Obviously the pennant needs to be kept in good condition but ours is several years old and seems to be doing fine.

The board did bang on the sides of the trunk when we bought the boat but we had pads installed on both sides to take up the slack and that really helped. Wedge shaped pads would likely do a better job.

To sumerize, the board does add complexity but to me is worth it for the increased weatherlyness that it provides. The fact that such impartial arbiters as Practical Sailor and Cruising World magazine think so highly of the 12.8's validates Ted's design. I love the way my boat sails and accept the fact that it won't be as weatherly with the board up as down but like the fact that I can go places others with deeper draft can't. I wanted a boat with a shallow draft that could still go to weather when the water was deep enough to allow for the use of the board and I got exactly what I wanted. No boat can be all things to all people. This one sure pleases me!

Jack Dexter
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6 years 6 months ago - 6 years 6 months ago #1664 by George Myers
Replied by George Myers on topic Brewer12.8 Centerboard
I had a Island Packet 44 , 1994. It outsails this Brewer 12.8 without a centerboard---by a bunch -it drew 4-11. Its hullspeed was 8.11 kn and Ive had it to 8.7kn on a close reach in 18 mph . It did not slide sideways much. Its very close in weight and size.
Last edit: 6 years 6 months ago by George Myers. Reason: typo

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6 years 6 months ago #1665 by George Myers
Replied by George Myers on topic Brewer12.8 Centerboard
By the way, I have Teds drawings showing centerboard and rudder. They also show a deeper keel with a dotted live -its 7 inched deeper.

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6 years 6 months ago #1669 by C. William Eilers, Jr
Replied by C. William Eilers, Jr on topic Brewer12.8 Centerboard
The board can NOT be raised by using the Stop Cable through the cockpit sole. The point of attachment of the cable to the board is directly below the cockpit hausepipe when the board is in the down position. As the board is raised the point of attachment is no longer under the hause pipe and is forward of this point believe me I tried when the attachment point of the main board lifting cable broke off 11 years ago on my way to Maine.

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6 years 6 months ago #1670 by George Myers
Replied by George Myers on topic Brewer12.8 Centerboard
Interesting! Why did your raising attachment point break off? Do you feel there is room to 2 part the raising line? Maybe using Dyneema line? Then change the stop line position by moving it forward so it will not vibrate at speed? I have not seen the underbody of the boat yet. Is the slot tapered the same shape as the board? or is it just a rectangular opening? I now have the plan from Ted brewer but it does not show this , just centerboard shape. What is the general clearance between the board and the slot? Thank you for the help. George Myers

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